Last week, I had the dubious honor of getting quoted in the same news article as Nazi Richard Spencer. Here’s Why There’s Anime Fan Art Of President Trump All Over Your Facebook is Buzzfeed’s Ryan Broderick’s attempt to make sense of the undeniable ties between anime fandom and the alt right, and figure out why that might be.

As usual, the answer is a lot more complicated than anyone expected. My take boils down to this: long before they were hotbeds of politics, sites like 4chan were initially created for talking about anime. When alt right rhetoric began to pop up on the forums we used to talk about anime, we were already there, hence the cultural intermingling.

Only, I’m not sure that my viewpoint got expressed perfectly in the article:

Lauren Orsini, a journalist who has written for outlets like CNN, Kotaku, and Forbes and specializes in Western anime fandom, told BuzzFeed News anime is just a niche interest that bored young men who feel isolated from society happen to like. They go to places like 2channel and 4chan to socialize over it and get radicalized.

“There’s a massive overlap between anime fans and the kind of people who never leave their computers,” she said. “And there’s an almost as big overlap between anime fans and people who spend a lot of time on online forums.”

While I think the Buzzfeed article tells an important and interesting story, it is still trying to depict a particular narrative, one that isn’t mine. I stand by my quote, but I don’t feel that the lead-in of “bored young men” is accurate for a few reasons. So let’s talk about it.

Who are anime fans?

The alt right is overwhelmingly male, but are anime fans? “I’ve never met a female anime fan in real life,” reads an Anime News Network comment in 2007.

For me, this is a surprising statement, since my anime fan history is overwhelmingly female. In middle school, I watched Revolutionary Girl Utena and Serial Experiments Lain at slumber parties. When I attended the historically all-female University of Mary Washington, our anime club was majority women. My husband, John, became the first male anime club president in school history during our senior year in 2008. So whose experience is closer to reality, that forum commenter’s, or mine?

It’s difficult to find anime fandom demographics, so I had to conduct my own study. In 2015, I requested demographic data from North America’s 10 largest conventions, and six responded. At all of them, women made up about 50% of attendance.

On the other hand, here’s a survey of Reddit’s r/anime community conducted in 2014. Only 7% of anime fans on that forum are female. In other words, what the data I collected really tells us is that when it comes to in-person anime gatherings, women are better represented.

In any case, anime creators seem to be hyper-aware of the idea that many disparate audiences consume anime, and they separate these by demographics. The categories of anime we know best—shounen, shoujo, seinen, josei—all refer to a specific age and gender demographic: boys, girls, men, women. That’s not to say that people only watch anime that matches their demographic, only that this is the initial marketing attempt.

“Bored” or savvy?

In the lead-in to my quote, I take almost as much offense to the precursor “bored” as I do to “young men.” Who doesn’t hang out in online forums because they’re bored? Instead, I think the overlap between the alt right and anime comes from anime fans’ computer literacy.

Forums like 4chan and Reddit have their own rules and idiosyncrasies. They take some experience in order to get up to speed with. You know what else is similar to that, at least until recently? Finding and watching anime.

Today anyone with a credit card can watch anime easily and cheaply on a digital streaming service like Netflix, Crunchyroll, Funimation, or Daisuki. But in the old days, when I was in high school and college, it wasn’t so simple, or above board for that matter. I could either go to places like Sam Goody and pay $30 for three episodes of Evangelion on VHS, or I could start some Limewire downloads before I left for school, and if I was lucky, they’d finish by evening. Piracy was not glamorous! (But now I’m grateful that it was such a slow, irritating slog that didn’t allow me to pirate very much, because I now feel so guilty about it that I’ve legally purchased everything I ever pirated, even if it was kind of crap.)

In other words, watching anime has long required a higher computer literacy than most Internet use requires. And its pirate legacy means the fandom has somewhat seedy origins, too. So I think anime fans are more comfortable than most people about hanging out at forums others might consider an online underbelly. The kind of places that alt right recruiters might go to spread their messages on the down low.

Final caveat

The Buzzfeed article focuses on young radicals who also love anime. That’s one story about an undeniable and fascinating sub-group of the fandom. But of course, most of us anime fans don’t fit into that group. We can like One Piece and not become radical nationalists, too!

My anime fan sub-group is in fact much different than the one in the article. Our politics tend to be liberal and accepting. The anime conventions I attend have things like gender neutral restrooms and introvert quiet areas. I also am part of a group blog called Anime Feminist. And even today, my community consists of mostly female fans, not male.

I don’t think the idea of anime fans as majority alt-right radicals is an accurate one. But my community doesn’t make up the majority either, not even close. There are around 20 million anime fans in America alone, and it’s impossible to discuss such a massive number as one group with common views and beliefs, other than of course “liking anime.”

Anime fandom is made up of many, many smaller groups with many, many disparate views.  But it’s much easier to just attribute one set of characteristics to all of us. Ultimately, that’s why I thought it was vital to contribute to the Buzzfeed article. If we ignore the way we’re represented, then somebody else will gain control of the narrative.

Convention attendees at Anime Expo 2014, credit.

I remember the first time I realized that not everyone, or even most people, liked my favorite anime.

I was in my college anime club. Every fall and spring, we chose four anime to watch for the rest of the semester, and we did this after viewing clips of about 25 different shows that club members provided. I brought my favorite at the time, a comedy musical called Nerima Daikon Brothers. I remember being so thrilled when people started laughing, and then crushed when I realized that they were laughing at it, not with it. And then confused. What?

This was in the late ’00s, and anime was going through a change. In that there was a lot more of it now, and we could all afford to be choosier.

Before college, I had such limited access to anime. I either had to save up money from my job at Coldstone Creamery—at the time, minimum wage was $5.15 an hour—or pirate shows using a service like Limewire. It took weeks to acquire either way. If you’re past a certain age you might also remember starting your .mov downloads before school and coming home to find them not even half complete. (This is not a defense of piracy. I feel awful about my old piracy days and have since purchased every title I ever pirated on DVD or Blu-ray.)

In the “good old days,” our anime selection was like the music selection you’ll find on a classic rock radio station. Since there weren’t resources (or interest) in bringing everything over from Japan, companies only localized shows they thought would sell well. The greatest hits of anime from the ‘80s and ‘90s, if you will. The Slayers, Revolutionary Girl Utena, Ramna ½, His and Her Circumstances—these were the titles of my adolescence. So in high school, it was easy to find people who had the same taste in anime as I did. First of all, there wasn’t much out there. Secondly, we thought all anime was good because it was. I mean, it’s all subject to taste but generally speaking, only the cream of the crop came to the US.

Then I went to college. I started attending anime conventions. If you waited until Sunday, you could get anime on DVD cheap in the Dealer’s Room. I discovered Nerima Daikon Brothers after swapping for it with a friend. I fell in love with it, especially the dub. It’s cheap but silly, catchy, and fun. Today its considerable social commentary—on such figures as Michael Jackson and former Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi—is extremely dated, but I still put it on when I’m feeling down. It never doesn’t make me bust out laughing. (I remember once, in 2013 while I was planning my wedding, I ran into a crisis that seemed huge at the time, but now I don’t even remember. John came home to me sobbing and smiling and singing at the TV.)

What I’m trying to say is Nerima Daikon Brothers is a quirky show that makes me supremely happy, but is far from a masterpiece that has something for everybody in it.

Today, very few shows have widespread appeal. With such a big selection, they don’t need to! We used to recommend anime by saying that a show “has something for everyone” in it; today we recommend anime as a genre by instead saying there’s a show out there for each person. Nerima Daikon Brothers resonated with me, but certainly not the rest of my anime club. I recall that year having an extremely eclectic selection when all was said and done, including a tearjerker, Haibane Renmei, dark comedy Welcome to the NHK, and all-out action Gurren Lagann. The flipside was that because we all had to compromise, I ended up discovering a lot of shows that I wouldn’t have necessarily watched otherwise, and widely expanded my tastes. I started attending to watch Ouran High School Host Club and Death Note; I ended up with a taste for (at the time) brand new airing shows like Last Exile. I probably would never have become an anime reviewer if not for being a part of my college anime club.

That’s awesome, but it’s jarring how much this shift has changed the way I watch anime with my friends. Not being able to decide on an anime for club was one thing. Coming home on breaks and discovering that my eight closest friends all preferred different shows was another. Most recently, a friend I’ve been watching anime with since we were 12 told me she was surprised to see my Anime News Network essay on Cheer Boys!! being my worst show of the season. It had been her favorite. “What happened to us?” I exclaimed, remembering how as middle schoolers, there was no question that we had similar feelings about every anime we watched.

Having been friends with the same eight people for more than a decade now, our diverging tastes have become even more obvious. At first, I took it personally, like my friends and I were growing apart and didn’t like the same things anymore. It felt like rejection, the same way bringing Nerima Daikon Brothers into anime club felt like rejection.

When anime was hard to get, sharing my love of anime already made me a loner. Back then, revealing I even liked anime felt like a compromising confession, so I guess I tied a lot of my identity to the shows I liked. I see this among anime fans of my generation, who remember those early times. We tie our anime preferences to our identities. Saying “I don’t like your favorite anime” sounds a lot like, “wow, your taste is bad.” It sounds a lot like “I don’t like you.”

But I think that’s changing. Today, discovering a new anime is hardly different from discovering any other new show—they’re all on Netflix. The next generation of anime fans is massive because the selection is way bigger than I ever could have imagined. And that’s the most magical part: even with so many shows to choose from, there are still going to be a select few who pick Nerima Daikon Brothers—not because it’s one of the four VHS tapes our friend group has access to, but because something inside this goofy show resonates somehow.

I have so much to choose from that these days it’s hard to pick a favorite, though lately I’ve been partial to Natsume’s Book of Friends. Instead, it’s become far, far easier to differentiate the things I like from the things I don’t and, as a reviewer, be very vocal about it. I might even say I don’t like your favorite show. But it doesn’t mean I don’t like you.